jacqueleefrell: gnitsinimef: ytsuken: xoxoflamingo: lookoutitsablog: creep-in-a-tshirt: eknott0: ana

jacqueleefrell:gnitsinimef:ytsuken:xoxoflamingo:lookoutitsablog:creep-in-a-tshirt:eknott0:anarcho-buttholeism:eknott0:creep-in-a-tshirt:anti-radfem:Aaaaaand common sense slaps feminists in the face hard. They’re just like…”w-what??? It’s not the men’s fault I don’t make as much as them??? It happened because of my own personal choices??!!??! IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!”Are you fucking kidding me? This post made me so fucking mad. It is literally proven that if a man and a woman are in the same field of work and working in the same position, on average women make less. It’s fucking proven, it’s a fact, not a made up feminist tactic.Also can we not ignore the fact that women are pushed out of STEM fields and other high-paying jobs that are seen as ‘men’s work’ and are heavily male dominated?? The labor market is incredibly gender segregated and jobs that are associated with women (secretaries, nurses, teachers, etc) consistently pay less than ‘male’ jobs, even if the work is comparable. (Which is one of the reasons public school teachers are drastically underpaid….. hmm.) This is literally gender studies 101.So jobs that women tend to work more such as secretaries, nurses, and teachers are comparable to jobs in engineering? We aren’t gonna take risk into consideration? No one is holding a gun to your head and telling you that you can’t work in STEM fields, if you want to go out there and work in those kinds of fields fucking do it. If people are so upset about the lack of women in STEM then do something about it. Instead of gender studies why don’t you major in something that will I don’t know help you get into fucking STEM fields(This is a super long post, but I’m trying to do justice to this super complicated issue, so bear with me anarcho-buttholeism)I believe strongly in humanizing the people you’re arguing with, especially on the Internet, so let me tell you a personal story. When I was a little girl, I loved science. My dad - a biology major - always used to explain different scientific concepts to my siblings and I, and his passion rubbed off on me. But over time, I started to realize that science and math were considered ‘boy’ subjects. I thought that I would, somehow, be less of a girl if I liked science…… it’s the same reason I played more with barbie dolls than hot wheels - I steered myself toward ‘girl’ things because that’s what I thought I was supposed to like. By the time I started high school, I solidly disliked STEM classes. I convinced myself I wasn’t good at them (even though I was - I made a 750 on the math section of the SAT and completely aced every math class I took). By high school, I’d also realized that STEM fields were difficult. That only really, really smart kids could do well in those fields. And I just didn’t have the confidence to pursue that.This is how girls become discouraged from taking STEM fields. It’s not someone holding a gun to our heads. Obviously. It’s the result of subtle social programming that we’re exposed to from the time we’re old enough to add 2 and 2. It’s not a literal gun, but our femininity is, in a way, held hostage when we choose to pursue male-dominated fields of study. It’s the same reason why not many boys choose to do ballet - they are teased, told they’re not manly, etc. Both men and women are pressured to conform to their gender. And that’s why a lot of young girls - myself included - are steered away from even wanting to work in STEM fields.Now, let’s pretend you’re a girl whose passion for, say, chemistry, exceeds the pressure to not do something so boyish. Let’s say you’re a girl who doesn’t care how ‘boyish’ science is, you know that’s what you want to do. So you go to college and you take your first chemistry class. This class is 90% boys - there are, maybe, one or two other female students in the class. (This isn’t an exaggeration. A friend of mine described this exact experience to me, but in a computer science class.) Would you not feel out of place right from the very beginning? Would you not feel like the odd one out, like you’d made a mistake? (This year, I took a computer science class where the majority of students were boys, and I can personally attest to this discomfort - and this was only an introductory-level programming course where the gender disparity was relatively low). Let’s add to this discomfort the blatant misogyny you’d experience from your male peers. There is article after article on the Internet written by women in STEM fields about this sexism, if you’d like an example. I only have testimony from female friends in STEM classes. On top of all of that, there have been so many studies done that show that professors are biased toward male students. So even if you can get past the social isolation and sexism, you’re still at a disadvantage. This is why a lot of girls drop out of STEM fields even before reaching the job market.Maybe you’re right and male-dominated jobs do deserve to earn more than female-dominated jobs. (I never said, though, that being a secretary is similar to being an engineer. If you’re going to argue, at least try to understand what I’m saying.) The point is that women are steered away from doing these more dangerous, more difficult jobs because of their gender, not because they’re not capable. And if you think the pay gap is totally unrelated to gender roles - i.e. how men are expected to be the breadwinners of their family - I’d advise you to take a history class about public policy in 20th century America and how the U.S. government manufactured laws to promote these gender roles (e.g. social security laws that gave ‘male’ jobs benefits but excluded women’s jobs as well as African-American-dominated jobs, such as agriculture and domestic service). Women who worked were considered to be earning auxiliary salaries, so women’s jobs paid less. It simply made economic sense. While this system made sense at the time, though, it doesn’t anymore. Women and men need to make equal pay if we want any semblance of gender equality. And we ARE working to get more women into STEM fields - why do you think there are so many programs aimed specifically at women in STEM majors? Programs getting young girls to code? I’m not a gender studies major, as you suggested, but I don’t see how studying the reasons for gender inequality isn’t in and of itself a good way to get women into STEM fields - if you know why women aren’t in these jobs, you can more effectively remedy that.I put a lot of time and effort into explaining this as thoroughly as I could and I can only hope that you take the time to try to understand where I’m coming from. As a guy, it might be difficult for you to see the invisible barriers to women in STEM jobs and other high-paying male professions. But don’t let your own perspective speak over the lived experiences of women in these fields who have overcome incredible gender barriers. As a woman, I can attest that they’re there.Emily is the fucking best, such an intelligent and wonderful woman ugh.And let’s not forget the phenomenon surrounding the issue of when a well-paid male dominated field becomes more and more equal on the gender line. The typical thing that happens is the field becomes less respected, pay goes down, and people are deterred from going into the field because it’s “for girls”. Pretty sure secretarial positions, teaching positions, nursing, etc were all impacted by this. And now it’s even beginning to happen in some STEM fields that women are succeeding in larger numbers in. Women do go into respected and well paid fields of work, society just relabels those fields as worth less over time.Check my facts on that. I read a few articles about it a while ago but I don’t have sources. I apologize if it’s inaccurate or misinformation. Sommers is such a jackass. She should not be allowed to lecture girls and women.Like what happened to biology, right Sommers? That sure helped. It;s already seen as a “less than” STEM field which wasn’t the case before women became common there. :^)Which reminds me, I seriously want women to take over physics and engineering to eventually see male STEMshits try and brand these fields as softcore non-sciences for idiots. Perhaps they’ll develop masturbatory obsession with liberal arts, or start talking shit about math? Their contrarian derpings would be so amusing to observe. Can’t wait for “women don’t have the brains for art history, that’s why all of them are electrical engineering majors”. My body is ready.I’m sick of the fact that nobody so far has questioned the assumption that those STEM jobs by definition deserve to earn more than sociologists. That’s some serious internalized shit you’re refusing to acknowledge there. Why do we see social sciences as less than? Precisely because they’re seen as women’s fields of interests.As a sociologist, I cheer on women in STEM in my personal and professional life. I will always reblog posts celebrating the accomplishments of women in STEM. There are none for me, and that is fine, as women in sociology don’t face the obstacles women in STEM do. But it would do my sisters well to stop considering my field, my interests less than, it would do them well to question why they consider my field a soft one and why I apparently deserve less money. So many important things happen in the field of sociology. I’m here for women not in STEM due to legit lack of interest in it, as well.Over the ages things like philosophy, literature and art where men’s domains and professionals in these field held in high regard. Now they’re considered women’s domain (as a field of study) they’re considered party degrees. It’s disgusting.Yeah, you’re right, I didn’t even pick up on that and I’mnormally pretty keen in these things. It’s so insidious. I am a preschoolteacher, I have always wanted to be a preschool teacher and I would never everwant to do anything else. I studied in this field for seven years and all thetime I got told this was a ‘soft field’, something women (obviously 99% women)do because they have nothing better to do, because it’s ‘the only thing womencan do’ because they’re not smart enough for other things, or other bullshit. I actually even bought into the whole ‘it’s fine that weearn less because it’s not a job that requires that much effort’ bullshit for awhile, simply because I myself love this job and it doesn’t feel like a job tome at all, it’s basically me having a fun time with kids. But seriously, whenyou think about it, apart from the fact that assigning ‘value’ to fields of study and jobs is aharmful power fueled capitalist idea in the first place, taking care ofchildren is a job that requires quite a lot, as does studying how to do that. Just like sociology, so yeah. It’s disgusting. . -- source link

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