kelseythelinguist: asspiratedconsonant: asspiratedconsonant: [languageoclock blocked me so i can&rsq
kelseythelinguist:asspiratedconsonant:asspiratedconsonant:[languageoclock blocked me so i can’t reply directly on her post]i agree with the sentiment but like… there are quite a few things wrong with this tbh. for one, great job throwing all east asians under the bus. “they don’t have as well developed skills as europeans” my ass. i dare you to come up with an explanation for that which isn’t blatantly racist. also yeah, we get it, you’re “”native passing”” in german. good for you. however, i have a slight accent when i speak english, and i don’t exactly look like a white english speaker, so a lot of people ask me (in broken hindi, a language i’m fucking A0 in) if i can speak it. it actually takes quite a bit of convincing to get people to realise that english is one of my native languages, believe it or not. and regarding the comment!! how would i know if you’re in a country just to practice the language? like, if i currently lived in india, i wouldn’t know if a white person is visiting to learn the language or for other reasons (like to visit people or sightsee), so naturally i’d start by speaking to them in english which i’m more comfortable in. if they took this as a personal attack, it’d be on them, not me. newsflash: foreign countries don’t cater specifically to your language learning needs. we have our own existences and better things to do than unconditionally help some white person learn our languages. sure, if you need help, it’ll gladly be provided, but don’t treat other countries as your fun linguistic playgrounds that have no other purposeyo @dminishedfifth your tags on this were absolutely perfect so i’m sharing them here #also#i sincerely doubt that people fell head over heels because you spoke basic japanese#i kind of have an axe to grind with op because they’ve been making ocs into a meme of sorts#and frankly the fact that it’s a liturgical language makes it even more insulting#i was happy initially because they were spreading awareness; thereafter it seemed to become subtle mockeryI find this to be an educational discussion on expectations and language learning, so I wanted to expand and add the following:On the language skills of “East Asians”I’m assuming we are talking about Chinese, Japanese, and Korean native speakers, albeit these are only the most popular language options from that region. I worked with international students and met many more from China, Korea and Japan while studying in Germany. Their German skills were better than mine, to be honest!The main misconception that speakers of these languages lack decent English skills is because we fail to understand two things: Our own short comings in language learning and the distance between languages.First, it’s very easy to overestimate our language skills when no one corrects us. This is true of everyone learning a second language, regardless of nationality or mother tongue. We may not realize we are using the wrong particle or verb form until years or months after learning the form, because our materials may be wrong or outdated. Or perhaps we focus so much on the academic subject, we don’t know the casual speech and end up sounding stiff.The distance between language matters. When an English speaker imagines a Chinese tourist or Japanese immigrant who just started learning English, they think of speech with a vastly different word order and no articles. This, of course, is because these languages have a different word order and no articles, and learning an entirely new grammar structure takes time. I’ve seen English speakers struggle with Arabic grammar, German cases, Japanese articles, and I myself struggle with Japanese/Hindi word order. New systems take time. The more distant a language is from your mother tongue, the more mistakes you’ll make.Furthermore, if we expand our scope to Southeast Asia and hone in on India, I can tell you most Indians speak at least two languages, probably three. This is true of all income brackets. It’s very rare to meet someone who only speaks their mother tongue. And those who speak English usually speak it very well.On studying abroad and learning languagesThe true purpose of studying abroad is to learn what’s missing. When I was in Germany, I could explain several things, including why I needed a new USB cable, that I needed an appointment, what symptoms I had. But I needed English to discuss my root canal in depth. And while I could struggle and argue about needing a refund in German, it was simply easier for everyone involved to speak English.99.99% of native speakers don’t care that you are learning your language. If you speak badly, they will smile and tell their friends you don’t know the language. You’ll know because they’ll say it front of you in their mother tongue, expecting you not to understand. If you speak it well, they will be impressed in passing. People have things to do. They have places to be. You struggling with them is an inconvenience for them, and they will switch to English because it’s convenient. They are not your teachers or tutors and it’s rather rude to expect that from them. If you meet someone who is helpful - these people do exist, make sure to convey your gratitude. I used to have this same misconception - I went to Russia with decent reading skills but dreadful speaking skills and annoyed quite a few people.I’ve seen this happen with students coming to learn English in the US. They want every native speaker to help them and talk with them. It’s hard for them when they know very little. Of course people do help, but they also have their own lives to live. Before talking to anyone, make sure you know what you want to say and have some responses prepared. This is not only good language practice, but it makes everyone’s day easier.All of the notes above are based on my experiences working with international students, studying in Germany, teaching in Russia, and living in India. I’ve had people be rude, I’ve had people be helpful. In the end, language learning is about the time you put in - before and after talking with native speakers. Be strong and keep practicing. :) -- source link
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