teashoesandhair:hippocleides:nonchalant-triceratops:poseyslegtattoo:the-obtrusive-boat:roManCE? aCHi
teashoesandhair:hippocleides:nonchalant-triceratops:poseyslegtattoo:the-obtrusive-boat:roManCE? aCHileelleS anD PaTrCOlUS ArE GAy?? NOoo AlWayS HeTeRO AnCIEnT GREeks VErY StRAIghT iLIAd HAs No GAyI’m sorry but didn’t Plato once write an analysis on why Achilles was the bottom in the relationship?Didn’t the Greek city of Thebes have an elite band entirely comprised of same-sex couples?Didn’t Spartan men casually sleep together so much that new brides were encouraged to cut their hair in order to ease soldiers into heterosexuality?Didn’t the Diogenes of Sinope, one of the founder of Cynicism, accuse Alexander the Great of being “ruled by Hephaestion’s thighs”?Didn’t Aristotle describe Alexander and Hephaestion’s relationship as “two souls in one body”?NOPE N O T H I N G BUT H E T E R O S IN GREECE.This isn’t even up for debate tho Greece LITTERALY has a patron god of homosexualityand let’s not forget Priapus (he’s not gay i just really wanted to mention him)Does it mean nothing to you, the unblemished thighs I worshipped and the showers of kisses you had from me? - Achilles as he mourns the death of Patroclus in Myrmidons, the lost trilogy by Aeschylus (tr. Tom Stoppard)Pretty hard to read a ‘no homo’ slant into that, really. Just two bros, kissing and admiring each other’s thighs. Y’know. Guy stuff.Okay while I agree with the sentiment of this post (of course ancient Greece wasn’t a pinnacle of straightness), the facts used are not the best. The ancient Greeks did not have categories of sexuality like we do now, and even the Macedonians and Athenians had different opinions on sexual conduct. Therefore it is anachronistic to state that Achilles and Patroklos were gay. And if we are going by the Iliad and applying modern labels then they were bisexual (they were both definitely attracted to and slept with women). Sleeping with both men and women does not make you gay, and being gay and being bi are not interchangeable. It seems that in modern times there is a reluctance to admit that men can be bi.The same goes for Alexander and Hephaistion (both bi if we have to use modern labels). Also, the letter by Diogenes is most likely fraudulent (and it said “held fast” by his thighs not “ruled”), and Aristotle did not say that quote specifically about Alexander and Hephaistion’s friendship (and the quote is attributed to Aristotle by an author 600 years later, just so everyone knows). If you want to make an argument that Alexander and Hephaistion weren’t straight then talk about when they sacrificed to Achilles and Patroklos at Troy, or the whole “He too is Alexander” incident after Issus. Use better sources.I’m also not sure why Alexander is always used as the poster boy for ancient Greek homosexuality, especially since he wasn’t actually homosexual even by modern standards (bi bi bi). I mean his dad, king Philip of Macedonia, was killed by a SCORNED MALE LOVER but everyone likes to say his dad was hetero. Come on.In short, if we’re going to talk about Achilles and Patroklos (and Alexander and Hephaistion) from our modern context: -- source link
#hephaistion#achilles#patroklos#bi bros