moushidoodles: othardsfallenflower:@moushidoodles First of all, let me make it clear: I am not say
moushidoodles: othardsfallenflower: @moushidoodles First of all, let me make it clear: I am not saying that modern Geisha are prostitutes. I’m not even saying that Meian Geisha were prostitutes. In the Edo period (1603-1867), however, the distinction between Yuujyo, Oiran, and Geisha was not clear. Many of these women crossed into the other professions and worked for both brothels and tea rooms. While Geisha were not primarily sex workers, it was definitely a part of their culture. It was only after 1872, when Emperor Meiji and his government passed a law on prostitution, that the Geisha were officially separated from the sex workers of Japan. Nowadays the Geisha profession does not involve sex. The information that I provided is meant for players of Final Fantasy 14, in which a certain race is based on Edo period Japanese culture, and so I focus on Edo period history. Most of my knowledge comes from my Japanese grandmother, but I made certain to fact check using history books and Japanese writings before writing the post. I’d be happy to provide sources for my facts, since you demand them. I’ve found a few English-language quotes for you, but most of my textbooks are written in Japanese, so they’d be of little use to you. Keep reading Hi dear, let me be clear in saying that I did not call you out, if I would have wanted to do that I would have reblogged the original post refuting everything that you had said. I simply asked what your sources were, and I would love links to the books that you’re referencing because after about a decade of my own research using various resources such as books written by maiko and geiko, plenty of documentaries, and my own set of informational books along with connections to others who have been studying the culture for far longer than I have, I have never found any reliable resource that has made any connection to what you have stated, and now that this has been added on with more misinformation, I feel obligated to state what my sources have said that refutes the information that you have put out there and then further expanded upon. Let me start by saying I have no problem with you writing your Final Fantasy character and giving her a backstory and putting your understanding of the culture into her character because from my understanding your character was inspired by what you thought geisha culture was, however it’s a completely different story when you put incorrect information out there stating it as fact to support your final fantasy character’s backstory as the truth. While it’s nice to have such an interesting outlook on a culture, stating it as fact is incorrect and actually hurts real people in a real profession. I think you might have a misunderstanding of the history of Geisha and where they originated from. So please allow me to add some clarification, again, these are from my sources after a decade of studying the gokagai and other hanamachi scattered across Japan. First you state that red light districts (pleasure quarters) were like Las Vegas which I don’t think is a fair comparison. It’s true that red light districts housed Yuujo, Tayuu, Oiran (in Tokyo), along with bars so there was certainly a lot of different fun that was happening there, it also housed the artistic professions as pleasure quarters were for worldly pleasures including the artistic (Kabuki, Noh, music, dances, plays), culinary, spiritual (Many built along shrines, they were started by shrine visitors needing a place to rest after their long journeys) and traditional escapes from the hard working outside world. Now, where Geisha come in, at the beginning of their profession, Geisha were men, these people would entertain the high class patrons, who normally of noble backgrounds, as they waited for the Tayuu and Oiran to make their way to the ochaya. Women saw this as an opportunity to make money with their arts and took the profession over. Geisha were there solely for entertainment purposes, a lot of times after the Oiran or Tayuu would come, they would make their exit, or if it was a big party they would stay and entertain the guests with their music and dances. Geisha were not pressured in any way to have sex by anyone, especially the okaa-san, in fact that would be a problem as it would create competition for the Oiran and Tayuu that they worked closely with. While it was true that sometimes Geisha would be housed in the same okiya as the Oiran and Tayuu, they normally had their own okiya with their own okaa-san so they could more easily focus on the arts, after a certain point they would live on their own. Tayuu and Oiran became less popular as the merchant class grew, the gaudy nature of Oiran and Tayuu fell out of fashion and the merchants preferred the more subdued appearance of the geisha, this was also the time when the traditional arts really started booming, the Geisha were able to separate from the Tayuu and Oiran and make money solely on their arts. It was true that girls were often sold into this profession by families that could no longer support them, all in all this was probably the best case scenario for them as Geisha had a really good shot at becoming independent business women in their own right and can gain a great reputation for their artistic abilities. You stated that maiko even back in the old days were aged 15 to 20 which simply isn’t true, that’s how things are done now but in the past maiko were literally children and would begin their training as early as 9 to begin entertaining around 11 and 12 and become a geiko by the time they were 17. Now there were a few hanamachi that allowed Geisha to be double registered both as Geisha and as prostitutes, Miyagawacho is a good example of this happening, this wasn’t the norm at all and in fact Miyagawacho is still dealing with the stigma, but these women when they were acting as Geisha didn’t provide sex for money, that was reserved for when they were working as prostitutes. Now you’ve brought some more information to light, that being Danna and Mizuage. I’ll start with the Mizuage as that’s the most commonly misunderstood tradition. In the red light districts just about every profession including Kabuki actors, Tayuu, Oiran, and Geiko, had their own variation of Mizuage, it was the transition from Child to adult. To different professions that meant different things, for the prostitution and courtesan professions that obviously meant the first intimate interaction between her and a customer, for Maiko though it was the transition from Junior Maiko to Senior Maiko, for Maiko this involved a big party where regular customers were invited as the Maiko has made it this far and has been able to keep up with her arts so well it’s expected she will become Geiko (Within the next couple years) This tradition is still practiced in Kyoto and a Maiko transitioning from Wareshinobu Hairstyle to Ofuku hairstyle with a cream collar is still big news. No one bid on her virginity and it wouldn’t have been a boost into her geiko career as her career is already started and normally by that point the girls were pretty successful. Danna are a completely different story. When the big art boom was happening in Japan and the Merchant class was at it’s strongest, it became a status symbol to have enough money to support an artist, the best artist you could get was a geiko. This was a business dealing and yes, while sometimes romantic relationships formed from this agreement, it was never expected. Geiko could tend to support themselves especially if they were seen as skilled enough to have a Danna, they were helpful, but not crucial. The Danna would help support the Geiko in paying for her apartment, buying accessories, paying a portion of the money for her classes, on and on. Danna got in return one of the best status symbols you could have, imagine having a business meeting over something very crucial and having the luxury of a geisha hosting and entertaining. Danna got priority when it came to scheduling appointments, but they didn’t have control over the geiko, she could still do as she pleased and entertain at other events and ozashiki. Neither party expected sex and the contract could be terminated by either the Danna or the Geiko for any reason. Today Danna are very rare, not a lot of people have the interest or financial ability to support a Geiko and honestly most geiko prefer not to have a danna as they can keep all their independence and not have to worry about fitting a danna’s schedule into her own. Geisha weren’t sex workers, those who did dabble did so legally by being double registered which wasn’t normal and wasn’t a reflection on their profession and even then they didn’t do the sexual services while working as geisha so I’m not sure where people are seeing the link that geisha were prostitutes when that’s never what their title meant. Resources: Geisha: A Life Geisha and Maiko of Kyoto A Geisha’s Journey Gion Ichisuzu Autobiography of a Geisha Geisha (By Liza Dalby) Geisha A Living Tradition I’m concerned that the first resource you gave couldn’t tell the difference between Oiran and Geisha in an Ukiyo-e print, nor could they distinguish Geiko from Maiko or even Henshin from Maiko. I also found their perception of the relationship between Geiko and Danna to be completely western in that they expected a sexual relationship out of the business arrangement between the Geiko and Danna simply because it was a male and female instead of considering the fact that the Danna benefiting from the status symbol that came with supporting traditional arts (That idea just seems so foreign to westerners). Second resource wouldn’t work, I don’t know how long it’s been down for but it doesn’t pull anything up. Third resource starts already confused as saying that Geisha are called Geiko in Tokyo when in fact they’re called Geisha in Tokyo, they also go on to confuse a senior Maiko with a Geisha, stating that the red collar deems her a geisha when in fact Geisha wear completely white collars. After which they confused the Maiko’s mizuage ceremony with the one preformed by Tayuu and Oiran. I could go on about this forever but my ending point will be this, as you said you’re not up for a debate. It’s okay to base your character on a culture or a profession and change some things about it to match your character’s story, even go off of what you’ve heard, there’s very few Japanese people who even know what a Geisha is or that they even still exist which has caused further damage to the profession when people are thinking that the mizuage ceremony is done that way for maiko so information that continues to link Geisha to prostitution which is just false, is very damaging, probably more so than people realize. It’s really neat that you’re putting all these resources out for the game to help other people, for the game (And let me tell you, I love that game as well and your character is very pretty) but when it’s put out as factual, it hurts real people. Edit: Made a quick edit, Mizuage ceremony is still done for Maiko when they transition from a junior maiko to a senior maiko, what I meant was that people still think Mizuage for Geisha had anything similar to mizuage for Tayuu. You can hear a mother share her concern about that very subject in BBC’s documentary “Geisha Girl” the okaa-san of the okiya clarifies that such a thing isn’t done and girls won’t be put into any situation they are uncomfortable with. -- source link